AWASH IN DORIS DAY

[mikeydv]

I just finished reading a plethora of Doris Day biographies. I started by reading CONSIDERING DORIS DAY by Santopietro, which I found very difficult to read. Perhaps it was the tiny print or the fact that he considers himself enough of a music authority to make dumb comments like: "She can only sing ballads and is not very good at rock and roll". HOG WASH: one of her biggest hits was "Shanghai"...certainly NOT a ballad, and there were many others. Like all the other authors, his point that Doris was under-rated in all fields is now a known fact.
Next, I read the book written by her former secretary, Mary Anne Barothy, called DAY AT A TIME. I found it charming.. The fact that Barothy betrayed some confidences in Doris led to her being fired . I am still convinced that Mary Anne is definitely a Doris fan; I also think that the end of the story in actuality was a "rush to judgement" on the part of both ladies, and I believe they are both sorry it happened. All WE needed to know was that they parted company at some point and moved in different directions. Why was never any of our business. But Mary Anne could have omitted that part of the story, if she had chosen. Instead, she told the Whole story, even though it ended unhappily for both of them at the time. Much time has passed with a lot of water under the dam. I think they should hug and make up.
After that, I read the new David Kaufman book, UNTOLD STORY OF THE GIRL NEXT DOOR. Actually, I liked it a lot (and I am a dyed in the wool Doris Day fan...have been since the age of 7, and I am now 71). What is compelling about this book is that the reader can tell how much the author likes Doris Day because it shines through on every page...even when he is reporting something not so savory.
Then came the new book (with exactly the same cover) just published in the UK called RELUCTANT STAR. (I waited to read any of the books until I had all of them on hand). I HATED THIS BOOK. The guy who wrote this book was just looking for a way to keep kicking Doris throughout...and frankly, she has been kicked, aligned, ignored, mistreated, underrated far too much in her life...we certainly don't need to read about it. Those of us who love her already know some important things:
1. SHE IS THE TOP FEMALE ENTERTAINER OF ALL TIME
2. SHE IS THE TOP BOX OFFICE ATTRACTION OF ALL TIME
3. SHE HAS THE BEST SINGING VOICE OF ANY ONE WHO HAS EVER RECORDED AND IS SECOND TO NONE! (Ella and Barbra can take a back seat and listen to the very very best)
4. SHE TURNED HER BACK ON HOLLYWOOD for many good reasons..and why not? What did Hollywood ever do for her? Did they honor her with an Academy Award DURING HER CAREER? Did they honor her with a grammy during her career. (They did STREISAND, and she can't hold a tea light to Doris)
Did they give her an Emmy? NO..BUT SHE DESERVED THEM ALL. So..now she is doing a service to the whole world with her animals, and we love her for that too.
AT ANY RATE, after reading all these books, I went back and picked up DORIS DAY-HER OWN STORY (WRITTEN with A.E. Hotchner) and re-read it. Funny....almost everything the new books called "revealing" was already mentioned by Doris in her own book from 1976. So much for any new slants!

[John M]

Hi Mikeydv!

Welcome to the forum! 64 years of loving Doris is very impressive! And not nearly enough!

Please note that I edited your post very slightly to conform to the rules posted at the top of this forum. Discussions of the books cannot include personal info about Doris or her family members. So I took out one line.

I want to read RELUCTANT STAR just so I can talk about it knowledgeably, but I refuse to pay for it and put money in the author's pocket, just based on his prior books. I have not read one good thing about that book.

I think it's like tilting at windmills to try to come to terms with a human life in one book. Especially a life like Doris'. I just don't think it can be done. Plus, the stories and observations are always colored by the prism of the interviewee's life experience, and then re-colored by the author's, both of which my be miles away from the subject's. And of course, in an autobio, people withhold or color certain things a certain way, which is human nature. But I do think they are interesting to read (autobios) in order to find out what the subject felt or thought about things. Life philosophies, etc. Which you almost never find in a bio, which is more a litany of facts, or supposed facts. That's why I do love the Doris and Hotchner book.

And you are so right about Doris deserving all the accolades she never got!

[mikeydv]

Thanks, John. Nice to be here. I never tire talking about Doris..although my family and all my friends keep telling me ENOUGH ALREADY. Is it ever enough?
Worse...I STILL think, with real effort, SOMEBODY could talk Doris into a new movie! I am keeping my fingers crossed that Liz Taylor will be the one to do it. Wouldn't they be a trip together???

[Jas1]

Mikeydv- I agree with your top post wholeheartedly. Have read all those books except 'Reluctant star' - I am three quarters through Kaufman [in proper order this time] and you are right; it is obvious he really admires Doris Day the actress & singer.

[gerard]

There are many avenues the Kaufman book did not traverse. No doubt, a future biographers will. Universally, people have concluded after reading the book, that David gives a highly meritorious and charming version of Doris Day's life.

Even so, people who refuse to read the book (they say) have condemned it. Isn't that silly? You'd think they'd be afraid to read DH Lawrence, or even Shelley. Could they dare read Voltaire? Maybe just Eleanor Porter.

We fought at Saratoga to resolve these issues of the freedom of the press, whereas the English were fond of tormenting their pamphleteers. I wouldn't have taken a pike in the eye, surely, but I, probably like Doris, am a free speaker (although I could don a wig if necessary when in the domain of the Brits). Poor Doris did not know what to say to the English reaction to her being there, and only managed to show people her doggie pictures, but that is not the way she expects everyone else to behave.

[John M]

There are many avenues the Kaufman book did not traverse. No doubt, a future biographers will. Universally, people have concluded after reading the book, that David gives a highly meritorious and charming version of Doris Day's life.

Even so, people who refuse to read the book (they say) have condemned it. Isn't that silly? You'd think they'd be afraid to read DH Lawrence, or even Shelley. Could they dare read Voltaire? Maybe just Eleanor Porter.

I'm sorry, Gerard, but I totally disagree about the Kaufman book being universally appraised as meritorious and charming. MANY people have found it full of filler and missing the mark and not revealing anything that wasn't already known. I found it VERY lacking in journalistic integrity. I haven't posted my review yet, but it's long and very detailed in the problems of the book. I think that many people who liked it are probably uncritical readers or people who skimmed it. Or people who just love anything related to Doris, whatever the quality.

And I don't see any correlation between refusing to read the bio of a celebrity and reading the great works of literature. One has nothing to do with the other. Many people here refused to read it because they respect Doris' right to privacy, not because they're afraid of the contents of the book.

Also, I deleted your political cartoon (although I personally loved it) as this is not the place for it.

[Dianne]

I haven't posted my review yet, but it's long and very detailed in the problems of the book. I think that many people who liked it are probably uncritical readers or people who skimmed it. Or people who just love anything related to Doris, whatever the quality.

John, perhaps you are right as I saw your post on Amazon and you certainly covered all bases. But I encourage you to post your review so that we might discuss and compare our different views on the Kaufman book...uh right now

[John M]

John, perhaps you are right as I saw your post on Amazon and you certainly covered all bases. But I encourage you to post your review so that we might discuss and compare our different views on the Kaufman book...uh right now

The Amazon BARELY covered anything, Diane! And more thoughts made it onto Stephen Munn's website as well. But there is a fair amount I like about the book too. I'm sure I'll get around to posting it soon enough (maybe).

[webmaster]

I think that many people who liked it are probably uncritical readers or people who skimmed it. Or people who just love anything related to Doris, whatever the quality.

Hope I'm not included in that sweeping statement, John. (and a few others on here) That's the trouble with making 'sweeping statements' - as I find when I make them. Ok, it wasn't "War and Peace", "Gone With the Wind", etc but it was a valiant effort. True there were a few things that were came under the category of 'too much information', or best left to the imagination but that's what you expect from the ruthless world of book selling - and it was supposed to be 'the untold story' so that covers a multitude of sins.

Actually I liked your review on Amazon - maybe you should post the link. I thought it was well written, considered, informative - and prejudiced! Just like anything the rest of us says about it, including me. I think we are all in too deep to be objective. I thought the book was a good read but I've forgotten most of it as I read a lot every day and can hardly remember what I read this morning sometimes. But I do remember getting more than half way through and thinking 'nothing really controversial so far' - not sure if I found anything after that (I don't see Doris as the girl next door anyway - wish she was!) but I did read a lot that surprised me and actually a lot of it was new to me.

I thought Heathcliff asked a very good question when he said "Why did Kaufman rely so much on fans? That may be an impossible question since it goes to motivation." I've been pondering that. Of course a lot (most) of her leading men and costars are dead - but many are still around - James Garner, Rod Taylor, Polly Bergen, Robert Morse... trying to think of some more. Actually, not all that many! Maybe we should do a head count.

[Debbi Austen]

Hi Mikeydv,

Welcome to the forum! I haven't all those books but I like to read what others think about them.

John M., I read your review on Amazon last week, and thought it was great!

[John M]

Bryan, no you were NOT inlcuded in the statement. I know you read it very carefully and thoughtfully. It was a sweeping statement, true, but notice I didn't say "all people who liked it..."

Yes, sadly, so many of Doris' co-stars have passed on, but a few are still alive:

Janis Paige
Kirk Douglas
Lauren Bacall
Bill Gray
Allyn Ann McLerie
Philip Carey
Martha Hyer
Louis Jourdan
Steve Forrest
John Gavin
Edie Adams
Ann B. Davis
James Garner
Polly Bergen
Rod Taylor
Dom Deluise
Irene Tsu
Robert Morse
Peter Graves
George Kennedy
Don Stroud
Pat Carroll
Barbara Hershey
Rose Marie
Paul Smith
Jackie Joseph
and many children from her films and TV show as well.

Of course during the years the book was being written there were also several who were still alive: Richard Widmark, Elisabeth Fraser, John Raitt, Dick Martin, Alice Ghostley and George Carlin to name a few. And relatives of those who've passed on. I'm sure the Thomas children (Marlo, Terre, etc.) have stories about their dad's experience on I'll See You In My Dreams. Ditto Bonnie Raitt and The Pajama Game.

And also not every interview has to be someone in front of the camera. There are plenty of behind the scenes people who go into making movies: Ray Aghayan is still alive and kicking and costumed her 3 times. Mort Garson and Don Gensen just passed within the last year.

Now, just being around doesn't mean they're willing to talk.

There have been a couple people I've been talking to for my book on her music, and I've had to REALLY go to lengths to prove that there isn't going to be anything personal in my book. Many don't want to be a part of anything that may be negative to Doris or invasive to her personal life, and one specifically told me he felt he'd "been burned by cooperating with a recent book" about Doris.

[Theodomus]

There have been a couple people I've been talking to for my book on her music, and I've had to REALLY go to lengths to prove that there isn't going to be anything personal in my book. Many don't want to be a part of anything that may be negative to Doris or invasive to her personal life, and one specifically told me he felt he'd "been burned by cooperating with a recent book" about Doris.

I hope you do find people to talk about her music. I think it is so underrated and yet such an important and wonderful topic.

I am REALLY looking forward to that book!

[Sheila]

Even so, people who refuse to read the book (they say) have condemned it. Isn't that silly? You'd think they'd be afraid to read DH Lawrence, or even Shelley. Could they dare read Voltaire? Maybe just Eleanor Porter

I don't think it's "silly" to disagree with a book without reading it. I won't read it, and I will condemn the idea of it, if I chose to. My reasons for condemning it have been stated previously. When a book comes out that discusses Doris' career, and does not delve into her private life or make unqualified psychological conclusions about her, I will read it...in the mean time I will stick to her own biography, where I can read, what she chooses to disclose, not what others choose to disclose on her behalf.

BTW I thought all this was to be discussed in the Den?

[Heathcliff]

James, I enjoyed your review on Amazon too. The internet is a small world. lol

Although I enjoyed "Considering Doris Day" much more than the Kaufman book, I don't think that the ultimate Day book has been written. Perhaps it never will (true of any subject) because the meaning of Day and her place in culture will change as the times change. Just witness how the meaning of her persona changed from the early 60's to the late 60's.

I do think she deserves a book like the Bette Davis one by Ed Sikov. That is a marvelous read with some wonderfully perceptive analysis of Davis' work. There is some dish for those who enjoy it too, but as Sikov said, the dish is just the side note. The book would be boring if Davis' work didn't merit serious analysis. The same is true for Day.

Interesting side note: "Calamity Jane" was originally a vehicle, according to Sikov, (I assume it would have been a non-musical...ever seen Davis sing "Thank Your Lucky Stars"???) for Davis.

[mikeydv]

JOHN
When you do her book about music, I HOPE that you will be the first person TO ACCURATELY list ALL of her recordings CHRONOLOGICALLY from the first ones, including those which said "vocal chorus by Doris Day" when she recorded with Les Brown. NO ONE HAS DONE THAT TO DATE. The 5 boxed sets of cds attempted some of it, but they left a lot out as well.
Funny...when I ponder Doris' music, and I have it all (I think)...including all those sides she recorded on 78 rpm back in the late 40's, I wonder why no one has ever published her COMPLETE discography? And a couple of my all time favorites by her were never released (I.e., "Let the Little Girl limbo"...should have been a gigantic hit; "Specially You", etc.) If you have not heard it, take a listen to "The Whole World is Singing My Song" with Les Brown and "I'll String Along With You", the version from the film song track...great records!
Her music makes my day........every day!

[John M]

Mike, I am planning to include a complete, definitive discography, although the book is only going to discuss her solo work, probably. I may change that and include the Brown work as well. But either way, it will be included in the discography. I want this book to be a one-stop-shopping encyclopedia of Doris' recording career, as well as a discussion of her (GREAT) musical legacy.

The film soundtrack version of "I'll String Along With You" is among my favorites. How I wish Doris had recorded it that same way for Columbia!

[Theodomus]

And a couple of my all time favorites by her were never released (I.e., "Let the Little Girl limbo"...should have been a gigantic hit; "Specially You", etc.)

Which versions are you referring to? I do have both of the songs?

[webmaster]

BTW I thought all this was to be discussed in the Den?

There are discussions in Small Talk and here as well, Sheila - basically it's the member's area and not just 'the den'.

Didn't know there were still so many of her costars still around - just thought of another - Billy Gray.

Many don't want to be a part of anything that may be negative to Doris or invasive to her personal life, and one specifically told me he felt he'd "been burned by cooperating with a recent book" about Doris.

Burned, eh? Hmmm... wonder who that could be? Is this another quiz, John?

[dave]

"Young Man With a Horn": all three stars billed above the title are still living and working a little, or a lot, 58 years later.. KD, LB, & DD. Guess I've said this before..

For what other 1950 film, or one earlier, can that be said?

[John M]

Thanks Bryan and Dave... I can't believe I forgot those two. They've been added to the list (just for fun...)

I also added Ann B. Davis, Paul Smith (to the remaining) and George Carlin (to the recently passed).

[mikeydv]

I am in the process, now, of re-reading the Eric Braun Revised biography, which I suspect will be rather tame after freading Brett. I don't mean to belittle RELUCTANT STAR so much, but I found no redeeming qualities in that book, and I don't even think the author is a very good writer at that, not to mention all the slaps he gives Doris in the face throughout the book.
I neglected to mention this before, and no one has commented on it yet. But I found the Santopietro book, as well as the Kaufman book, also difficult to read because of the small size of the print. Even with magnifying glasses, it was sometimes difficult to concentrate on the books because of the print size. Check it out against most books on the market, and you will see the point type is much smaller...not sure why. I gave both books (copies of them) to some good friends, and they have said the same thing...that they are h having problems reading them because of the small type. (SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT, JOHN, WHEN YOU DO YOUR DORIS DISCOGRAPHY, WHICH I CAN'T WAIT FOR.)

[John M]

mikeydv, I'll keep that in mind. I can relate, as for the very first time in my life, this year I find myself having to don glasses to read some things.

[suzie]

Me too john and I hate wearing glasses, what a pain... However we should be glad that we can see at all let alone read.

[Daisy June]

Me too john and I hate wearing glasses, what a pain... However we should be glad that we can see at all let alone read.

You got that right Suzie. I have been wearing glasses for several yrs. and I hate it, but what do you do. Be glad you can see, read, hear all those things.

Carol

[mikeydv]

Glasses, I have found, do not always help with tiny print..then we are talking magnificatiion necessities.
Santopietro's book was a real struggle even with 10x magnification. I told my eye doctor and showed him the book, and he said it would take a teen ager's good eyes to be able to read that print!!!

[Theodomus]

Hey, they were probably just thinking about the environment - Needing less paper this way...

[John M]

I told my eye doctor and showed him the book...

Mike, does that mean you went to see your occulist??

[mikeydv]

John: and he charged me a whole lot more than fifty dollars!

[Theodomus]

But I hope you are not seeing purple cows?

[John M]

I don't know Marion. I'd much rather see a purple cow, than hear one, if you know what I mean. (Apologies to anyone who likes that horrid little song!)