Poll: Doris Would Have Been Better

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Poll: Doris Would Have Been Better: Select Three and Tell Us Why

1953. From Here To Eternity (Deborah Kerr)
2
6%
1954. Dial M For Murder (Grace Kelly)
1
3%
1957. An Affair To Remember (Deborah Kerr)
4
13%
1958. South Pacific (Mitzi Gaynor)
7
23%
1961. The Children's Hour (Audrey Hepburn)
0
No votes
1963. Charade (Audrey Hepburn)
0
No votes
1964. The Unsinkable Molly Brown (Debbie Reynolds)
2
6%
1965. The Sound of Music (Julie Andrews)
1
3%
1967. Wait Until Dark (Audrey Hepburn)
0
No votes
1967. The Graduate (Anne Bancroft)
3
10%
1973. Forty Carats (Liv Ullman)
1
3%
1977. The Turning Point (Shirley MacLaine)
1
3%
1983. Terms of Endearment (Shirley MacLaine)
2
6%
1989. Steel Magnolias (Oympia Dukakis)
1
3%
1996. Mother (Debbie Reynolds)
3
10%
2004. The Notebook (Gena Rowlands)
3
10%
 
Total votes: 31

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Poll: Doris Would Have Been Better

Unread post by jmichael » 27 Sep 2012, 11:00

Doris would have been terrific against-type casting as the adulterous wife in From Here To Eternity. Her love scenes with the strapping Burt Lancaster would have been sizzling on screen.

Doris would have been perfect as Nellie Forbush in South Pacific. Mitzi was a pale imitation IMO.

The Notebook: I can only imagine how touching Doris would have been opposite James Garner in this popular film.
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Re: Poll: Doris Would Have Been Better

Unread post by Jas1 » 27 Sep 2012, 17:37

South Pacific and Molly Brown- goes without saying and the first choice for them...

Also went for Graduate- just think Doris would have been superb playing it down and sexy - a la Teacher's Pet but looking like she did in Glass Bottom Boat - what a sexy Mrs Robinson..here's to you...

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Re: Poll: Doris Would Have Been Better

Unread post by HilB126 » 30 Sep 2012, 05:02

The only one I could see Doris in is "The Notebook". It was a sweet script and seems like it would've been right up her alley. I can't even imagine how amazing it would've been to see she and James Garner united once more, 40 years later. I'm a sucker for them and wished they'd have done more together.

As much as I would love to see Doris in the role of Maria von Trapp, I do have to say that I don't think she'd be able to out-do Julie Andrews. That part was made for her. And then there's that whole problem of filming on location in Europe, which we know was an issue with her. But, on the bright side, we do have her singing a few songs from the movie.

And then just to play devils advocate, it would've been amazing? funny? to see her in "The Children's Hour" with rumored star Katharine Hepburn. If Kate was so nasty to Ginger, I can't even imagine what she would've been like to poor Doris. :twisted:

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Re: Poll: Doris Would Have Been Better

Unread post by Ania » 30 Sep 2012, 07:08

I chose the last three films, but only for the fact that it was wonderful to see Doris again on the big screen. I did not watch South Pacific so I can not write about this film and the role of.

Surely that Doris was wonderful in "The Sound of Music", but I love Julie Andrews as Maria and I can not imagine another actress in the role of Maria von Trapp. I can not imagine a Doris in the films "From Here To Eternity" and "An Affair To Remember". Deborah Kerr in these films showed excellent acting and Deborah will always associate me with these videos. No, but already I can not imagine another actress than Doris in the films "Romance on the High Seas" and "Pillow Talk". Doris has created this wonderful roles in the film and her film roles are passed into history. We will always remember Doris singing "It's magic." Can you imagine how the song "It's Magic" in the film sings Deborah Kerr?
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Re: Poll: Doris Would Have Been Better

Unread post by webmaster » 30 Sep 2012, 12:52

I selected "An Affair To Remember", which could have been a better pairing with Cary Grant than "That Touch of Mink", which by today's standards, makes them seem a bit long-in-the-tooth for those kind of games.

"South Pacific" would probably have been just another musical if she'd done it - and I couldn't see her in the role of a closet lesbian in "The Children's Hour" (Shirley Maclaine said she and Audrey Hepburn - or anyone else on the film by the sound of it - never discussed the complex relationship between the two woman,)

"Wait Until Dark" is too similar to "Midnight Lace" - ditto "Dial M for Murder"....

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Re: Poll: Doris Would Have Been Better

Unread post by jmichael » 01 Oct 2012, 10:55

All very interesting responses and comments. Thanks for playing.

Bryan, I tried picturing Doris in another Hitchcock film and had difficulty seeing her as one of his "icy" blondes. Doris radiated a much warmer glow than someone like Grace Kelly and certainly Tippi Hedren. I threw Dial M For Murder out there to see if anyone thought she could have been convincing in that role.

Debbie Reynolds was a terrific foil for Albert Brooks in Mother. She under played the role to great effect and I'm glad Brooks turned to her, after Doris turned it down. Great point you make about Doris and Cary in "An Affair To Remember" -- I can see them together in that film although it's hard to find fault with almost anything Deborah Kerr did.

As for Wait Until Dark, I think Doris would have been fascinating as a blind woman who out wits and out lives her tormentors. Yes, it is similar to the woman in peril theme of Midnight Lace but also grittier and a whole lot scarier IMO. At least, the finale was scarier although the middle stretch was a bit talky.

Like HilB126, I think Doris and James Garner would have taken the Notebook to a whole new level although it was a good film IMO. Rachel McAdams as "young Ally" has much of the spark and presence that Doris had on screen. I could see them playing the same character at different stages of life. The director, Nick Cassevetes, chose his own mother, Gena Rowlands, to play the part and you can't blame him.

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Re: Poll: Doris Would Have Been Better

Unread post by webmaster » 01 Oct 2012, 11:13

I haven't seen a number of those films, Michael:

1973. Forty Carats (Liv Ullman)
1977. The Turning Point (Shirley MacLaine)
1983. Terms of Endearment (Shirley MacLaine)
1989. Steel Magnolias (Oympia Dukakis)
1996. Mother (Debbie Reynolds)

Doris in a different Hitchcock Film: how about, Suspicion, Spellbound, North By Northwest, To Catch a Thief, and especially the Karen Black role in Family Plot?
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Re: Poll: Doris Would Have Been Better

Unread post by Jas1 » 02 Oct 2012, 15:23

As for Terms of Endearment - while I love Shirley in the mother role - I thought at the time (and still do) how wonderful Doris would have been in that - playing against type - I have no doubt had she done it - she would have gained that Oscar (as Shirley did at the time).

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Re: Poll: Doris Would Have Been Better

Unread post by jmichael » 02 Oct 2012, 16:42

webmaster wrote:I haven't seen a number of those films, Michael:

1973. Forty Carats (Liv Ullman)
1977. The Turning Point (Shirley MacLaine)
1983. Terms of Endearment (Shirley MacLaine)
1989. Steel Magnolias (Oympia Dukakis)
1996. Mother (Debbie Reynolds)


Doris in a different Hitchcock Film: how about, Suspicion, Spellbound, North By Northwest, To Catch a Thief, and especially the Karen Black role in Family Plot?
Bryan, you need to catch-up on thees films. Have a Netflix marathon or something.

Suspicion -- Yes
Spellbound -- Haven't seen It
NBN -- Eva Marie Saint was a better choice for Eve Kendall IMO.
Thief -- Yes that could work.
Family Plot -- I don't remember much about that film and would have to see it again to say.

Jas, great point about Doris in Terms of Endearment. BTW, a bit of trivia on that film. Quite by chance, I was traveling to Lincoln, Nebraska on business when they were filming it. Someone told me they were shooting at the airport and I went to have a look. Sure enough, Shirley MacLaine and Jack Nicholson were filming a scene in front of the terminal. I watched them do several takes and marveled at how good they were. Shirley kept bending and stretching between takes as she once was a very capable dancer. They seemed to have a great rapport and respect for one another.

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Re: Poll: Doris Would Have Been Better

Unread post by Jas1 » 03 Oct 2012, 18:10

Great story Micheal re- TOD- thanks for sharing.

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Re: Poll: Doris Would Have Been Better

Unread post by webmaster » 03 Oct 2012, 19:16

Yes, enjoyed reading that, Micheal. Here's another good story about Shirley from our newest member (be nice if you guys welcomed him - don't we always do that? :) )

http://ralphm1999.wordpress.com/2012/02 ... apartment/

From Ralph: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3975
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Re: Poll: Doris Would Have Been Better

Unread post by Johnny » 23 Oct 2012, 16:37

My three choices for Doris.

South Pacific -Doris' singing would have made the film even more enjoyable. The role would have been perfect.for Doris. Doris has powerful charisma (which was evident from the very moment we saw her in Romance On The High Seas). Doris is a great dancer. Throle required all these skills.

The Turning Point - again Doris has the body and walk of a dancer. It would have been wonderful to see her spar with Anne Bancroft.

Terms of Endearment -Doris would have softened the character but still would have been as strong. In all Doris' films she persevered. Shirley Mac Laine did a great job but we have seen this tough but likeable character before in some of her other films. I think Doris would have a great match for Jack Nicholson.

Other films Doris would have been great in - All About Eve as Eve Harrington. Her youth and innocence would have contrasted well with Bette Davis' cynical and weary Margo Channing.

A Place In The Sun in the Shelley Winters role. She would have made the character even more sympathetic I would have loved to see her be matched with Montgomery Clift.

Alice Doesn't Live here Anymore in the Ellen Burstyn role. Doris is a singer and works beautifully with children. It would have been a great opportunity for Doris.

Ordinary People - in the Mary Tyler Moore role as Beth . I think Doris has the ability to demonstrate a depth of emotional denial and vulnerability that the role required. Mary was great.

Mr. and Mrs. Bridge in the Joanne Woodward role - I would have loved to see Doris work with Paul Newman - I think they would have had great chemistry.


The Bridges of Madison County - in the Meryl Streep role. Doris and Clint Eastwood would have made a great pairing.

Imitation of Life- Doris would have been perfectly cast in the Lana Turner role. She would have had a good chemistry with Juanita Moore, Sandra Dee and John Gavin.

Back Street - Doris would have been great in the Susan Hayward role. This would have been a different role for Doris but she would have been perfectly cast as a fashion designer. The clothes would have looked sensational on her. Try and imagine her in the wedding dress auction scene and the confrontation with Vera Miles.
I would like to add that the Back Street Frank Skinner music score is one of the most beautiful soundtracks ever recorded.
Johnny

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Re: Poll: Doris Would Have Been Better

Unread post by jmichael » 24 Oct 2012, 07:09

Johnny,

Thanks for your thoughtful response. You've mentioned several interesting roles that never occurred to me.

Love your suggestion of Doris in the Shelley Winters role in APITS (great film) opposite Monty Clift and Elizabeth Taylor. Also very intrigued by the notion of Doris in the MTM role in Ordinary People. And you are spot-on about Doris in Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore -- can you imagine Doris and Marty Scorsese collaborating on a fim together? WOW. I had read somewhere that Scorsese considered Love Me Or Leave among his favorite films.


Thanks for playing.
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Re: Poll: Doris Would Have Been Better

Unread post by jmichael » 24 Oct 2012, 07:10

Johnny,

Thanks for your thoughtful response. You've mentioned several interesting roles that never occurred to me.

Love your suggestion of Doris in the Shelley Winters role in APITS (great film) opposite Monty Clift and Elizabeth Taylor. Also very intrigued by the notion of Doris in the MTM role in Ordinary People. And you are spot-on about Doris in Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore -- can you imagine Doris and Marty Scorsese collaborating on a fim together? WOW. I had read somewhere that Scorsese considered Love Me Or Leave among his favorite films.


Thanks for playing.
Michael
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Re: Poll: Doris Would Have Been Better

Unread post by Johnny » 16 May 2016, 15:33

The conversation about all About Eve came up again with friends. I told my friends that I had mentioned in previous posts that Doris may have been able to carry off the Eve Harrington character played so well by Anne Baxter. Jas commented that Doris may not have been a mature enough actress at this time. It is highly valid point.

I thought about how Doris had played Ruth Etting so brilliantly opposite the very strong James Cagney in Love Me or leave Me. I compared the ambitions of the characters (Ruth and Eve) in both films. James Cagney and Bette Davis are both incredibly dominate characters in their roles (Marty and Margo).

I sometimes thought watching Anne Baxter as the calculating Eve, that she played it a little too cloying and obvious at times as the devoted fan. I thought Doris with all her honesty in her performances would have been more subtle and thus more shocking in the reveal. It would have been a career defining role for Doris.

There is an element in all Doris' performances that captures the heart of her audience as few performers have. I believe she could have played darker characters and her fans would have remained loyal. James Cagney was well loved regardless of the roles he played.

It would have been interesting to see the chemistry between Doris and Bette Davis. This idea provoked a lot more conversation amongst my friends and a great deal of humour. I summarize this with saying.. it is just an idea.
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Re: Poll: Doris Would Have Been Better

Unread post by Jas1 » 17 May 2016, 04:58

I would have loved to have seen Doris in Terms of Endearment - although Shirley did a wonderful job - gaining an Oscar for it.

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Re: Poll: Doris Would Have Been Better

Unread post by Johnny » 17 May 2016, 12:25

Thinking about the poll, I would choose:

South Pacific - listening to Doris sing the beautiful songs would have raised the quality of the film. She would have dazzled in the role of Nellie. (Think of the photos posted of Doris with the group of sailors)

The Turning Point - Doris' experience and poise as a dancer would have added to the role. This film is a particular favorite of mine. This film would have allowed Doris to play a dramatic role with great emotional depth. She would have been perfect for the part. I would have loved to see Doris play opposite Audrey Hepburn.

The Notebook - Doris and James Garner together again ; how wonderful would this have been? The Notebook is one of the most beautifully filmed romantic dramas with exceptional engaging performances from Ryan Gosling as Noah and Rachel McAdams as Allie.
Rachel McAdams large blue eyes are unforgettable in The Notebook. What bothered me about Gena Rowlands as the older Allie is the color of her eyes which are a dark brown. Doris' beautiful blue eyes and stunning smile would have been more convincing in the part.
Perhaps both James Garner and Gena Rowland could have worn blue contacts.

Regardless, The Notebook will stand the test of time as an incredibly romantic and touching film.
The soundtrack for The Notebook is one of my favorites. The scene when Noah and Allie dance in the middle of the road on the way home from the movie to Billie Holiday singing I'll Be Seeing You is deeply touching and make anyone want to fall in love.
Johnny

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Re: Poll: Doris Would Have Been Better

Unread post by jmichael » 18 May 2016, 07:12

Agree with Johnny's comments about The Notebook. I know that many people roll their eyes whenever a Nicholas Sparks book or film adaptation is mentioned, but Nick Cassavetes' direction and his sparkling leads lifted The Notebook far above the sudsy romance genre. The film boasted two of the most charismatic actors in films today: Rachel McAdams and Ryan Gosling in star-making turns and then you get the mature warmth of James Garner and Gena Rowlands as elder versions of their characters.

Rowlands is Cassavetes' mother and I suspect he planned to cast her from the moment he signed-on. However, I wish he had reconsidered and offered the role to Doris. Rowlands has enjoyed a long and critically acclaimed film career with several films under her belt over the past twenty years. This film would have provided Doris a wonderful onscreen reunion with one of her most beloved leading men. The one significant negative is the role - it's passive and subdued, neither of which plays to Doris' charismatic energy on screen. There wasn't a lot to play with and it might have been disappointing to see Doris make a long awaited comeback in such a depressing role.

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Re: Poll: Doris Would Have Been Better

Unread post by Jas1 » 18 May 2016, 09:54

Very interesting observations.

However, I read once [who knows if true or not] - however, it was along the lines of the fact that Doris was very superstitious about any role she may have taken on in later life and it reflecting on her in real life- the book/ article quoted some friend of Doris' who had played a character with breast cancer, then developed this. The same source said Doris [at that time, this would have been in the 1980s] was almost paranoid about developing cancer.

Of course the above could have been a lot of trash - and possibly was- however, if there was any truth in it- Doris [by the same token] would never have accepted the part in the Notebook - of an Alzheimer's sufferer.

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Re: Poll: Doris Would Have Been Better

Unread post by Johnny » 18 Feb 2019, 23:10

After watching High Noon with Gary Cooper, I thought Doris could have played the role Grace Kelly played of Cooper's Quaker wife. Doris' character in Storm Warning may have prepared her for this role.
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